I write this post as a follow up to the comments (that I am grateful for) left on the previous post on Child Abuse.
I thank Mampi and Sandy for stating (in comments section) what I couldn’t have done a better (or even equal) job at. Hence, I’ll just run with the thread that they started. Mampi states in her comment:
Why are the children expected to forgive and forget? Why is the erring parent not made to say sorry to the child? If at the end of the road, after becoming an adult, it is upto the child to analyse his/her life and look at his/her abusive parents in the positive light so as to forgive them and to move on in his/her own life, what was the contribution of the parents to his/her life at all? Of course it is the negativity in the personality that we are reading about in Roop’s post. In order to rid that negativity and to help the victim “forgive,” an apology is needed from the erring party. Parenting is a responsibility and the personality of a child is squarely our responsibility. We teach them not by disciplining them, we teach them by disciplining ourselves.
And that’s exactly what I feel. Onus is NOT on the victim to forgive and forget. Why should it be? Plus it is not easy to forgive and forget pain practically as it can be expected theoretically. As I mentioned in the previous post, I tried and failed to both forgive and forget. I had to settle to learn to live with it and the process is effective in helping me live a positive life now. Further, Sandy adds:
The lessons you teach your children, even if you are doing the best you can, will effect them forever. And again, I am not talking about not getting what you want for Christmas or not getting candy or not being allowed to jump off the roof of the house, or even made to eat all your peas. However I am learning with my own children that there are ways to do things that do not include belittling a child or hitting them. We want them to grow up as strong adults who can make their way in the world on their own when we are gone…and beating the, burning them, attacking them mentally is not the way to do that.
Again, Exactly!! Thanks, ladies, for sharing from a parent’s point of view which, for obvious reasons, I can’t relate to yet.
Whenever I’ve talked to people about abuse, I’ve often heard responses like:
“Oh but I was beat too! So what?”,
“I was forced to go into engineering as well, so what?”,
“My dad used to beat me with a belt, so what?”
“Parents only do what they think is best for you.”
… and so on.
At one point, my own husband was one of those people too. When I asked him what he was beat for, he couldn’t remember clearly. And I, on the other hand, can narrate the times, the days, the moments (all of them) in chronological order accompanied with the emotions I felt, the hatred I felt for myself, the dismay I went through, the physical pain, the helplessness … before I blink an eyelid. Where lies the difference?
One, he was hit a LOT less than I was. Two, every person has a different breaking point. Mine’s different from his and his is different from the friends he grew up with. If he was slapped in front of guests for not serving tea properly, he might not care but it hurt me. It hurt me and my self esteem immensely. Physical pain (as Sandy did mention in her comment) was trivial but it was the emotional pain that gripped me. I constantly kept expecting that the realization would dawn on them miraculously and that it would be obvious to them that I suffer every time they told me that I was not even a zero but a negative. No miracle ever happened. Instead, negativity persisted and I couldn’t handle it. I crumbled, I lost confidence in my decision making capabilities, I faltered in social relationships, I learned to distrust people and distanced myself from anyone who tried to be friendly with me. When I was going through it, I was told by an adult in the family that I needed to be stronger and not take everything too personally. But WHY did I NEED to be stronger? Stronger to live with my own parents? Stronger to face the punches that I had to bear from my own parents? It was my bad luck that I was not strong enough to accept getting hit because I wanted to wear contact lenses like my friends did but that wasn’t ‘allowed’ as per their rules. It was my misfortune that I got bruised for wanting to be like other people my age. School, sleep, exercise, eating, and bathing was all I was supposed to be interested in. Everything else including TV was taboo. If I stepped over the arbitrary lines, I was ‘punished’ and then expected to be strong to take it? And now I am expected to be strong to forget about it all and forgive them? Why? I hate asking this question … but why me?!?! Why should I be asked to keep accepting and then forgiving and forgetting?
NO, I will not forgive.
I will not forgive for …
- being made to sleep on the cold and hard kitchen floor all night
- every bruise I’ve had on my body
- getting belittled every day
- having my ambitions, my dreams crushed
- having me live in an atmosphere of fear
- the physical pain that I still go through
- the stress that my husband has to go through seeing me suffer
- my lost years
… and much more.
No, I will not forgive!! Neither would I take anyone telling or asking me to forgive anymore. Yes, I am resentful … but the resentment is receding gradually as I convince myself that I am out of the negative environment. The resentment turns into positivity on hearing my husband’s voice of encouragement whenever I find myself in a sinking low. Resentment does not go away by forgiving someone. Instead, you can only forgive someone when resentment goes away. Resentment goes away by learning to believe in your own self once again. Resentment is overruled by positivity as soon as you hold your life’s reigns in your own hands. The reigns that were taken from you a long time ago by making you feel like an incompetent individual who can never make a ‘good’ decision.
No, I will not forgive! But that doesn’t mean I won’t take care of them if they need me. I will for if it weren’t for them, I wouldn’t even have been born. They have no one but their children to take care of them in their time of need. I understand that and I will be there for them anytime they need me. I’ll give them all the love and the care that they need … but not as people who I am supposed to share my life and its achievements with … but as people who are also human beings just like the people I work with in all non-profit organizations I volunteer with.
I, as an individual, have some responsibilities to myself. I, as a wife, have some responsibilities to my husband. I, as a mother, will have responsibilities to my children one day when I have them. These responsibilities include me leading a healthy and a happy life myself so that I can support rest of the members in my family in an encouraging and a positive manner. In order to have that happy and healthy life, I don’t need to forgive anyone. I only need to not blame myself, close the chapter of my past by accepting it, learn to live with it, work on the present, and celebrate life’s every joy and achievement with those who make me happy.
And that is exactly how one purges the negativity and resentment after having gone through an abusive experience …. to answer the very valid question that SidhuSaaheb raised in the comments to the previous post.
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August 30, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Sandy
Whenever I’ve talked to people about abuse, I’ve often heard responses like:
“Oh but I was beat too! So what?”,
“I was forced to go into engineering as well, so what?”,
“My dad used to beat me with a belt, so what?”
“Parents only do what they think is best for you.”
… and so on.
Or, how about this “…it could have been a lot worse, be grateful it wasn’t…”.
Those are coping phrases…what we tell ourselves to make us feel better about what happened to us..to try to hide it. For some it helps them move on. I used to tell those things to myself a lot…”it could have been worse…”
Well you know what…it also could have been a helluva lot better too.
I have learned through my own healing process that you can NOT discount your own (or anyone else’s) feelings. No matter how trivial they may seem to you (or someone else). If it means something to you, if it hurt you..then it is important. For example…with my son I had a horrid birth experience to the point where I was literally terrified at having another child. I was so terrified that I refused to sleep with my husband for fear of getting pregnant again. Those around me laughed at me. LAUGHED. Because of my experience I had debilitating post-partum depression to the point that I can not remember much of the first year of his life.
Now, others have had similar and even worse experiences than I did. They told me that I would get over it and it wasn’t that bad blah blah blah. But it was bad to me. It effected me in ways no one knew and I sat in tears many many times because of it. Yes, I did have another child…but I was terrified the whole time. I had some complications in my pregnancy that even compounded those fears.
That leads me to my next point…discounting one’s feelings (your own or others) just makes the pain worse. It really doesn’t matter if you were beaten and came out the better for it, it doesn’t matter if you experience was worse…what matter is how that person feels for it.
Yep, S, what someone else might have or might not have gone through does not give them the right to discount how I feel. It’s true. Everyone has a different breaking/tolerance point.
August 30, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Sandy
And I forgot to add (taking care of an 8wk old and a 3yr old kinda makes you forget things! LOL) that forgiveness doesn’t equal healing…it is usually the other way around…healing equals forgiveness. If you can heal from your hurt…THEN you can forgive.
Sandy: that’s an EXCELLENT point that you made. only when healing is complete can we forgive.
hmm answers a lot of questions i had in mind actually. people, when hurt, stop talking to each other and given years, get over the hurt, and then forgive and forget. makes sense.
August 30, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Silvara
I was reading this post and flashbacks of my own childhood came back to me. It left me literally holding my breath because it was right there – everything that I had been through – right in front of me.
The worst part of it is, is that I just accepted it as that’s the way they were – that’s how things were. It didn’t matter my younger sister never went through it, but me ‘rebelling’ against their ideal caught the brunt of it to the point where I have lost count the number of times I tried to escape…by either leaving home or…attempting to end my life.
I now have a very strange relationship with me mother – I am chastised for not showing affection to her, but even when I WANT to – something holds me back. The memories of the bruises, the insults – what I now know as physical and emotional abuse, I…I just can’t.
As a result I rebelled even more, did things that I would never normally do (which when they found out made it worse), and I believe escaped through getting married as soon as it was possible. I have trouble revealing my feelings in person, I can’t say it out loud and I’m withdrawn – even with my husband.
I never realised that I haven’t forgiven or forgotten, yet just go through life as if it never happened. I alternate between still wanting their love and approval and hating them inside for what they have done to me.
I am still learning to turn that resentment into my own control.
Silv: First, thank you for sharing. Second, I just wanna say .. omg me too! … as u felt your story being told when reading what i wrote, i felt the same reading yours. rite from being at the brunt and sis not getting it the same … to the feelings of running away and killing myself … to the distance from both my parents … to the want of getting married to get out … to not sharing myself with husband either … yep, all of that! exactly the same!! just that i never chose to talk about it earlier and now i do and i hve to continue to talk about it … cuz it’s not something i did to me … it was done to me … to us … no one deserves it. i don’t want to live with this pain any longer. don’t want to lock down any feelings and suffer silently. Thanks for sharing. Sachi.
And yes, that love and approval bit too. Although I must say that I have moved away from that these past two months. I haven’t really spoken to them and don’t intend to either. I feel much more in control without them. Sounds very insensitive, doesn’t it? But I have no choice. I keep seeking their approval when I am in touch with them which i will NEVER get and I know for sure that I won’t get and I still keep expecting and getting hurt. Better is to just cut off all relations and heal before reaching the point where Sandy says one can forgive … and perhaps forget.
August 30, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Sandy
Silvara,
What you are going through is normal. As children we want our parents in our lives, we want their approval, we want their love. But for some of us it is difficult, if not impossible, to achieve or to give it back to them. I have had to cut of all ties with my own mother. I have some of the same issues you described.
Also, when you said you just accepted it…it was normal for you. There was no way to know it wasn’t normal, that is all you knew growing up, so it WAS normal. It isn’t until we are older and able to look at it and others and compare that we know it wasn’t.
Just realizing that your past is what is making you withdraw is actually the first step in healing and moving on…with or without the love and approval of your mother.
Cutting ties surely works, S. Don’t know if it is a long term benefit though.
August 31, 2008 at 12:40 am
Mahwash
The question is not to forgive or to understand how we can forget the years of abuse we have suffered … the question is whether those years of pain and torture have created monsters within us … or those things which didn’t kill us, actually ended up making us stronger.
Have you and your husband fought those years and grown as individuals as better, more sensible parents? Have you understood the philosophy of ‘never-again’ and seen to it that you would not repeat your parents mistakes? Have your experiences helped you understand the strength God gave you to come out of this as sane and together as you possibly could?
If the answers to those questions are yes, resentment isn’t of much consequence. If you feel, on some days, the pain of a hurt and beaten moment, it is natural and not really unrealistic to feel so. Bitter experiences don’t just disappear out of memory (some of them do, but prolonged experiences do have their long-term scars).
The truth at the end of the day is that you’ve come out healthier than the person who tried to harm you (even if it was a parent, who did it unwittingly or purposefully) and that you’ve developed and grown your self and your ideas in a better, healthier way.
If that is there, resentment is a feeling. Let it come and pass.
Mahwash: a voice of reason!! Thank you. I see your point and yes, it helps hearing it …
August 31, 2008 at 2:01 am
Cee Kay
Sorry to know what you went through, but I am glad to know that you, for one, broke the cycle by choosing a non-abusive partner (like Sandy said – we look for what we know).
You know “forgive and forget” is bullshit! Complete and total BS! I agree with Sandy that only once we have healed within, can we even begin to forgive. Forgiveness isn’t a process that can be forced. And “forgetting”? My mantra is – I might forgive, but I will never forget.
Why? Some people say why retain the negativity? I don’t “not forget” to retain the negativity. I remember because if I forget, it might give the abuser another chance to abuse me. “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on ME” can aptly be applied to abuse too, no?
I SO agree with you. Forgiveness, even for one’s parents, cannot be forced. Shouldn’t be. You will forgive – or rather let go – once YOU are ready. No one can hasten that process. I have been there too (aunt, uncle, inlaws – long story). And from personal experience I know that only after I was at peace within, was I able to let go of the hurt. I still haven’t forgotten, don’t intend to. Ever. But now the memories of that abuse don’t drive my emotions. They don’t torment me like they did earlier. I am a stronger person now, but it took me a long time to overcome the effects of abuse even after I was out of there. This – in response to your previous post about Ms. X. Will write more on that later – have to go to bed now.
Just read the last three posts. Brilliant!! And so thought provoking. You know, only someone who has experienced it or witnessed it at close quarters can understand the havoc it can wreak on one’s psyche. People who tell you its no big deal because they were beaten too, or that it could have been worse ro some such sh**, have NO idea what it si like. A friend once told me (for the abuse heaped on me by my uncle and aunt) that “God is preparing you for something” and my question was “Why would God want me to go through the same shit twice?” I guess I still haven’t forgiven her for the insensitivity she showed me when I shared my situation with her. Instead of empathising, she sermonized – which I HATE!
OK – enough rambling. I am thinking of writing a post on this – your post triggered that spark in me. Maybe I will – it might be tough to focus on this amidst job search (I got laid off due to budgetary reasons a week ago).
But KUDOS to you. You are a strong person!
CK : thank you soo much. this is exactly why I said i’d like to hear from you. now i look forward to read your post ….. so agree with the ’sermonizing’ bit. ugh. annoys me too.
August 31, 2008 at 2:32 am
Sidhusaaheb
I think the issue is best left to a professional psychiatrist, should you ever decide to seek help.
However, if you choose to continue to live with it, the choice, of course, is all yours.
August 31, 2008 at 10:20 am
Sandy
Cutting ties with my mother is the only thing I could do to stay sane and be there for my children. Every time I would just talk to her would not only raise my blood pressure but throw me into a depression because I couldn’t have the same kind of relationship with her that others have.
Just because she is my mother doesn’t mean I have to sacrifice my mental state to stay in touch with her. If there ever comes a day where I hear she is in counseling and working on her issues, then I would have no issues speaking to her again. But as it stands, I can’t allow her in my life anymore for myself and my kids.
Blood is not thicker than water. I am grateful she gave me life, she almost didn’t. But that doesn’t mean I am going to let her continue her abuse of me either.
August 31, 2008 at 10:35 am
sraikh
Oh Roop.. ((Big hugs)) After reading all the comments, I have nothing much to say. I can only say this, that how strong and postive you are inspite of all that has happened.
PS:You been awarded.
PPS:Did you get my email
August 31, 2008 at 11:47 am
Allytude
You know what I feel about all this, I thik you are so brave for writing it out- openly. Will chat to you about it.
Roopie, you need ot visit my blog, there is something for you.
August 31, 2008 at 11:51 am
Forgiveness Does Not Equal Healing « It’s An Insane World Out There
[...] Posted on August 31, 2008 by Sandy I have been commenting on a series of Blog Posts here when I realized that I really needed to write my own blog post about this. There is so much to [...]
August 31, 2008 at 2:52 pm
indianhomemaker
Hi Roop, I wrote and deleted many comments…finally all I will say is, remain your positive self. hugs
ihm: :)
August 31, 2008 at 4:53 pm
Sherri Cornelius
Hello. I came here by way of WordPress because your headline grabbed my eye. I feel sorry that you had to go through those things you talked about, and I can relate in my own way.
I would like to say one small thing: In my experience, letting go of resentment and forgiving are one and the same, rather than two separate processes.
I wish you much luck on your journey.
August 31, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Piper..
Your post brought back childhood memories. Of being locked inside a dark bathroom for hours, without food or water. Of being hit by a belt, a hot cooking spoon, a scale..whatever came handy. Of being insulted and belittled in front of friends and family. Of being scared by threats of sending me away to an orphanage. Of never ever being able to use lipstick or any make-up till date because of the horrid things I was told when I did use it once at the age of 12 (that I was fat and ugly, that my lips were thick and that nothing i wear ever looks good on me) – by mom. Renu,if you`re reading this, that`s the reason I dont wear lipstick. Never did. Not even on my marriage day! That`s what your post reminded me of, Roop. And like you, I dont think I`ll ever forget. Nor forgive. If it was only physical pain, I wouldve, long time back. But a bruised soul like mine and yours, will pbly never heal.. Its so sad. I wish it cudve been otherwise..
August 31, 2008 at 7:30 pm
michelle2005
I understand your point…exactly. Recently I did a post titled …Heartache At The Hands of The “Church”. It details the abuse I suffered at the hands of an abusive husband (for almost 25 years..we were BOTH ordained) and then being told it was my fault.
Having a fractured eye-socket and a broken jaw…by being hit with a hammer…the authorites veiwed as ABUSE. Thanks to them they helped me make a decision I was unable to make on my own…GET OUT!
Sometimes it’s helps …even if only a little…knowing that others understand. There are more people that care about you than you may realzie…and I’m one of them.
Michelle
August 31, 2008 at 7:45 pm
Silvara
You’re right – it’s only now that I have conciously tried to distance myself away from them that things have been better. It might also be for the fact that I am now married and to them, that means their main responsibility is over but I am tending to believe it’s because *I* am now calling the shots.
I DON’T have to take it now and I don’t.
I love my parents, I do, but I can’t totally forgive and forget. What they might say was necessary or part of growing up, to me, was traumatic and belittling. There are many things that could have contributed to their behaviour, and I admit mine – the generation gap, the culture gap, personality clashes – but despite all these reasons – I still believe there wasn’t any excuse for what they did.
I understand you forcibly removing yourself from them, and I am glad you are – because you know that it is the healthiest for YOU now, for your life. You no longer revolve around them, you have the control to heal in the way you know how.
August 31, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Cee Kay
Check my blog. Something there for you!
August 31, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Priyanka
I was told by my parents that I was an impossible and very naughty child, so for years and years I believed that I deserved those beatings. They used belts and wooden scales and anything that was within their reach. Its only after I read about child devt. and parenting recently did I realize that my parents could have dealt with me in a better way. I Forgive my mom but cannot and will not forget. My mom feels extremely guilty for all the beatings, but not my Dad. Have you spoken to your parents openly about how you feel?
Pri: i’ve been thinking … but dont think i am ready YEt …. but one day, it shall happen for sure. not that it’s gonna change anything. whatever little i did share with my mother, she just laughed at me. can’t risk to do it anymore yet. am too vulnerable ….
September 2, 2008 at 11:01 am
Roop Rai
Thank you everyone so much! You’ve all been so generous with your words, support and encouragement. I not only learned more about the topic than I had set out to but also learned more about myself. I thank you for your time …. really do.
Sandy has summarized the last three posts brilliantly here:
http://insaneworld.wordpress.com/2008/08/31/forgiveness-does-not-equal-healing/
please have a look.
and Thank you, once again. :)
October 22, 2008 at 7:10 am
Final List of Nominated Posts « Visceral Observations
[...] Vagina Dialogues Author: Ideasmith Let’s Talk about Porn Author: Crazy Sam Need I Forgive? Author: Roop Eolke Stobblehouse and the Simple Nudes Movement Author: [...]
November 5, 2008 at 7:48 am
Nita
Roop, I read this post only now. I don’t know why I didn’t know about your background. I guess I was reading your blog only superficially and apologise for that. I am sorry to read all this, but I agree with you there it is not possible to forgive these things. But it is important to forgive yourself…in the sense that realise that none of it was your fault. I hope you have reached this place Roop.
Thanks Nita! Almost there almost there. :) Working hard on it …. U have nothing to apologize for though! All of us read each other superficially until someone chooses to share their personal story and I am certain all of us have one. :) Mine just happens to be just a bit sad but nothing that can’t be overcome with love and support of friends n husband. :)
December 29, 2008 at 4:21 am
sunnee
My parents are nuts! Though we are all much older, they still belittle and blame me for their actions of the abuse. I am angry at them, but love them. Why do I still even give them the time of my day? To be hurt once again. No sense in it! I am much better off without them and continue to be happy with my own little family. I agree, why forgive and forget. It’s not easy at all and neither was/is the pain. Removing oneself from the abusive people is much easier. It has to be normal and I know its alot safer. My nightmares go away when I stay away from them. Thankfully!
Thanks for this site and the chance to vent. I had not seen my dad over 2 yrs. and did last night, I spoke one word to him, which was “HI” and that gave him the chance to belittle me again. He may pass away soon because he’s been very ill off and on recently, but I am sure I will be better off and this world will be too. It’s sad, but so very true!
With prayers~
i so hear ya, s … sad surely it is. hmm.
March 1, 2009 at 5:45 pm
Goofy Mumma
I had the same really! Not so much the physical beating, but the constant berating, lack of faith, being called worthless, filthy, ugly. I was once even bitten by my mother, and never taken to the doctor, (oh I missed that in my biting post). Thanks for telling me healing will lead to forgiveness. Hope so!
The only thing I know is that all my terrible experiences make me more aware of my parenting duties, and approach.
April 6, 2009 at 1:38 pm
questioning the self « banalities of my life
[...] Am I just subconsciously reliving the escapist strategy that I mastered over the years I spent in confinement? The survival tools I needed then don’t need to be applied any more and yet, perhaps, [...]